617Dambusters

Are we on the eve of the war to end all wars again..???Discuss...I believe yes...

I say let the stubborn bastards kill each other. If Israel wants to fight the whole mideast well then she is more than welcome.

If israel starts loseing...the united states will step in...we are almost allies...I think bush is just waiting for someone else to jump in...so he can step in and not look like the bad guy....

This is a situation that has been brewing for thousands of years.
Stubornness and inflexibility on both sides isn't helping.
This will only become a world war if Syria and Iran's conventional armies are brought into the picture (apart from funding, training and supplying Hezbollah and other radicals), and then the west reacts by sending troops in support of Israel.
Anything which threatens to disrupt the availability of oil will be the catalyst for western involvement.
If the oil isn't threatened, I suspect our politicians would prefer to stay well away from this one (at least they'd not be open about it).

About the only other thing that would bring western troops into full blown action would be a full scale invasion of Israel, but that's only if Israel was unable to defend itself. Israel has proven time and again that it is willing and able to defend itself against often far superior numbers, and generally doesn't ask for foreign assistance anyway.

I don't believe that an invasion of Lebanon by Israeli troops would spark a major international war, it didn't last time. We'd all rattle off a few incredibly effective speeches, along the lines of "stop that, or we'll say stop that again". Unless of course Iran and Syria got involved.

I can't condone Israel's heavy response to the kidnapping of two soldiers, I see it as over the top. But then again, I don't live in a place surrounded and outnumbered by people who have sworn to kill me, my family, my friends, and then take my home and wipe my country off the map. Of course, nor do I condone the rocket attacks from the Hezbollah.

My thoughts go out to Guynir (who lives in Israel), and his family and friends. Take care, and good luck! Stay safe Guy.

I also feel for the non-radical Lebanese who are caught up in all this, just as their country was finally starting to recover from the pounding it has taken over the last 30 years.

trevor8 wrote:If israel starts loseing...the united states will step in...we are almost allies...I think bush is just waiting for someone else to jump in...so he can step in and not look like the bad guy....

Not almost allies trevor. We are one of their allies.

The way I see it, Israel are the bad guys, I don't know what you see in the news in your counties, but the German news show it from both sides and seem quite fair in their reports, I can't beleive some of the things I hear on CCN or BBC world news (very one sided). The only reason the USA and other allies are helping Israel is money.... and the fact that they wish to control the only asset these poor middle east countries have, Oil!

I mean, how would you feel if some poeple turned up with guns and said ok this part of your house now belongs to them! Then they decide that they not happy with just part of your house but want 3 quarters of it...leaving you the celler....every time you come upstairs you are controled or even stopped....what would you do?

its a story of David and Goliath, and Goliath is doing all the moaning and at the same time most of the killing.

I think its time the world stopped closing it eyes to the truth!

Lets hope there's no war!

well it seems to be getting even worse...Iran and syria seem to have talked it over and agreed to protect eachother....

Guy's there is 1 history leson we are all forgettingn here, The bible and the perscution of god's people !! this is never going to be over til the end of the world plain and simple.don't start fretting things til syria, egypt, iran and the rest of the muslim countries start supporting hazbollah in full force.
while this is going on we are going to suffer badly by way of cash!! be ready for 5-10 dollar a gallon gas!1

my random thoughts:

the 24 hour news networks jump all over this shit and the american media is way one-sided courtesy of 9/11

the bush administration has all but given the isrealis a green light

Americans not in a position to barter any peace so maybe somebody else will start playing world policeman for a fucking change. It's expensive for us to do all this alone.

Stability is in the best interest of most country leaders.

u cant squash extremeists with military action as it only breeds more hatred toward the wealthy countries

i say we send ithica over there to smoke the holy peace pipe

I really have no desire to help Israel, sorry but thats my opinion. You dont' want to negotiate with "terrorist" groups then fine. Even though some of these "terrorist" groups have been ELECTED into the government through DEMOCRACY.

We aren't really in a spot to say anything anyway. We are in debt up to our eyeballs, and our troops are spread thin as it is. It seems to me it is always the radicals that lead us to these clusterfucks, and that goes for BOTH sides. Hopefully one day the mainstream of every population will have enough and just stand up and say NO, we are tired of your bullshit, we are tired of fighting, we just wanna live our lives in peace. I know that is very wishful thinking, but hey someone has to have the hope.

Oh yeah guys, I am clean for good. Sorry Charlie, that would be frowned upon by the teaching establishment if I was to get caught.

Ithica wrote:Oh yeah guys, I am clean for good. Sorry Charlie, that would be frowned upon by the teaching establishment if I was to get caught.

Riiiiiiight... You may want to change your sig then ithica!

One thing that's being forgotten here...
Sure, Israel has a habit of hitting hard and getting itself in the shit, but in its 63 year history as a nation (as far as I recall anyway), it has NEVER asked anyone to do its fighting for it.
During Gulf War I, they had to be held back while the scuds were coming down on them so they wouldn't get involved, so as not to upset the fragile coalition with other arab states.
I sincerely doubt that if they were attacked again, or got into a major firefight with multiple nations, that they would ask for anything more than arms and ammunition.
I think other nations would be quicker to offer help, than Israel would be to accept it.

Sure, Israel is allied with the US, but that alliance is a headache for both parties. The Israelis never do things the way the US would like, and the US never gives Israel exactly what it would like, without strings attached.

This will blow over. Lebanon will get a caning, the Hezbollah will be forced to reduce their profile a bit, new recruits will be drawn to Hezbollah, and eventually start hitting Israel again, Israel will hit back. rinse and repeat for the next thousand years. Just don't let any of them get their hands on any nukes. Then we'd see some fireworks, and the world would just get alot more complicated.

Guynir, it might be time for you to shed some light on this argument, seeing as you're probably the only one here who knows anything first hand....

BTW Charlie, the US aren't the only ones playing global policemen in Iraq. Granted, you guys have by far the largest presence there, but apart from the US there are currently 28 other countries involved. Hardly a "who's who" of world power-brokers, but at least we're trying to help.

Albania, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Rep, El Salvador, Estonia, Georgia, Honduras, Hungary, Italy, Japan, Kazakhstan, South Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, Mongolia, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, United Kingdom, and Ukraine.

From this list, you can guess who's trying to join NATO.

Australia have stood back to back with the US through every major international conflict since we became a nation in 1901, sometimes even beating you guys there.

WW1, WW2, Korean War, Vietnam, Gulf War 1 (limited involvement), Gulf War 2, Gulf War 2++, Afghanistan, various peace keeping missions (Bosnia, Somalia, Rwanda etc.). We didn't get involved with the Spanish-American war, or local stuff like Grenada, but then again, we weren't invited.

It's not all one-sided of course, you guys have helped us out too. The Battle of the Coral Sea made the Japanese navy think twice about invading us, and the troops the Japanese sent to fight at Guadalcanal had to be diverted from New Guinea, thereby leaving them too short to mount an invasion of Australia (they got to within 300 miles of the Aust. mainland).

Yeah Fuel, you are Right. I just Hope it stays that way. ( Its simple as Good Verses Evil) It takes that Kind of Force to keep the World a Stable Place to Live, for the Free Nations. Yes you are Right as Australia is one of the Nations that has always been their. I also admire their History as most Australians were offcast, ( as was our Early Americans ) that were deposited their. It took tough people to settle the Land, as so did our Early Americans. I feel You People to be a Tough Nation, over their. --- I just can't get use to your Aussie Hat. He He -- Great Looking, but one side of da Face, might get Sunburned.

Dang Ithica... nice.

On a lighter note;

After numerous rounds of "We don't even know if Osama is still alive," Osama himself decided to send George Bush a letter in his own handwriting to let him know he was still in the game.

Bush opened the letter and it appeared to contain a single line of Coded
message: 370H-SSV-0773H

Bush was baffled, so he e-mailed it to Condoleezza Rice.
Condi and her aides had not a clue either, so they sent it to the FBI.

No one could solve it at the FBI so it went to the CIA, then to NASA.
Eventually they asked Britain's MI-6 for help.
Within a minute MI-6 cabled the White House with this reply: "Tell the
President he's holding the message upside down."

FuelPump wrote:Australia have stood back to back with the US through every major international conflict since we became a nation in 1901, sometimes even beating you guys there.

WW1, WW2, Korean War, Vietnam, Gulf War 1 (limited involvement), Gulf War 2, Gulf War 2++, Afghanistan, various peace keeping missions (Bosnia, Somalia, Rwanda etc.). We didn't get involved with the Spanish-American war, or local stuff like Grenada, but then again, we weren't invited.

It's not all one-sided of course, you guys have helped us out too. The Battle of the Coral Sea made the Japanese navy think twice about invading us, and the troops the Japanese sent to fight at Guadalcanal had to be diverted from New Guinea, thereby leaving them too short to mount an invasion of Australia (they got to within 300 miles of the Aust. mainland).

I have to agree with all you said, in particular the above. I know my Dad has a huge amount of respect and praise for the Australian soldier. He basically said if he needed his six covered, he could always count on an Aussie. My Dad served as an advisor in Nam and had Aussie junior officers and enlisted men serving with him. He is still in touch with an Aussie captain who served with him and lives in Sydney. My Dad never knew LG Peter Cosgrove (http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-heroes/cosgrove.htm), but his friend and Cosgrove served together and are friends.

BTW, I love the digger hat. I now have one. It was sent to me by my Dad's friend. He also enclosed the Australian badge that is worn on it that was his father's, who served in WWII. It is one of my most prized possessions.