Drooooooooooooooooooooollllllllllllllllllllllllll
Peter Jackson's next movie
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Bundyrum
- Posts: 551
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Bundyrum
- Posts: 551
- Joined: Sat May 22, 2004 8:40 pm
- Location: Australia
Did some searching.
Found this trivia
http://www.computing.dundee.ac.uk/staff ... ambust.asp
The film "The Dam Busters" premiered on 16th/17th May 1955, attended by numerous survivors of the raid. It is a reasonable portrayal of the story of the development of the "bouncing bomb" and Operation Chastise itself (and of the characters involved in the story), but like all cinematic versions, there are some inaccuracies, omissions or inconsistencies (for whatever reason). This list gives some detail on the factual inaccuracies that I've spotted in the film:
* Upkeep: the bomb shown beneath the attacking Lancasters in the film is too large and too spherical in shape; this suggests continuity with the earlier footage of real test drops, but is more likely due to the secret nature of the Upkeep weapon (it was still secret when the film was made, and for many years afterwards - hence in some of the test drop footage from the Wellington and Mosquito, the bomb is masked out by a black disc). The shots of the bombs bouncing towards the dams in the film are actually archive shots of Highball tests on Loch Striven. [There is no suitable archive footage of Upkeep test drops with a suitable background.]
* Other Aircraft: During the crew briefing in the film (and very prominently in the cinema trailer for the film), Gibson remarks that 617 will be the only squadron operating that night. This is also stated in Gibson's book and Morpurgo's biography of Wallis, although Sweetman and Cooper note that other squadrons were flying that night (including "gardening" (mine-laying) operations all along the enemy coast (with 54 aircraft, one of which was lost), and a 9 Mosquito raid on Berlin; major bombing raids were off due to the full moon) - see my Big & Bouncy page for references). [Cooper and Sweetman are correct, according to the Bomber Command diary for May 1943.]
* The spotlights: The idea of the triangulated spotlamps to set the aircraft height is shown as being Gibson's, during a visit to the theatre; in fact it was Benjamin Lockspeiser (Chief Scientist at the Ministry of Supply) who came up with the idea, it having been used as far back as World War I. Also in the film, the height spotlamps are shown under the nose and tail of the Lancasters; in fact the second spotlamp was in the rear of the bomb bay. In many art prints of the dams raid, the spotlamp beams are incorrectly shown shining down directly beneath the aircraft (where they could not have been seen from the cockpit). See my Big & Bouncy page for details of the spotlamp mounting.
* Hitting the dams: In the film, all the mines hit the dams (with the exception of Hopgood's at the Möhne and Maudley's at the Eder) and it appears to take several hits to break the dams, contrary to Wallis' theory that one hit in the right place would be enough. In fact, it was the first correctly placed mine which actually broke the dam in each case, just as Wallis predicted (see my Big & Bouncy page for details of the attack). The last mine was dropped at the Möhne (by Maltby) just as the dam was already crumbling following the hit by Young. [This error, which actually reflects badly on Wallis, is probably down to wanting it to appear as though all the aircraft bombed accurately.]
* The Eder: In the film, the second mine dropped at the Eder (by Maudsley) is dropped too late and the explosion causes the aircraft to crash into the hillside after a last faint radio message. However, it is now known that Maudsley's aircraft actually crashed in Holland, so it was either not damaged by the explosion of the mine (other than perhaps the radio), or took longer to succumb to the damage than is suggested. [This error is probably due to the records of the time which showed Maudsley as lost over the Eder.]
* The Sorpe: Although mentioned as one of the raid's targets during the crew briefing in the film, the actual attack on the dam, and the different method of attack, are not shown. [This omission is probably due the anti-climax it would have produced, as the Sorpe was not breached.]
* The Lancasters: The Lancasters that appear in the film came from the Maintenance Unit at RAF Hemswell, having the 617 Squadron code letters applied (Gibson's aircraft also got the ED932 registration, though others kept their real registrations) as well as having the dorsal turrets removed (as the real aircraft had had) and the addition of the oversized dummy Upkeeps. Most of the original Lancasters saw no further action during the war, and were scrapped after the war ended, including Gibson's aircraft (AJ-G / ED932) which was scrapped in 1946 (sacrilege???).All the aircraft used in the film were broken up for scrap in 1956. The film aircraft appear to have 2 x 0.5" machine guns in the rear turrets, though the original aircraft would have all had 4 x 0.303" machine guns there; ammo seen being loaded also appears to be 0.5". [ This detail was probably overlooked when making the film. ]
* Test dams and testing tank: The catapult shown for testing the bouncing bomb in the tank at Teddington is the original device, and this is still owned by the National Physical Laboratory, although it is currently on loan to the Barnes Wallis Collection at Elvington, York where it can be viewed by visitors. The sequences in the testing tank were filmed in the actual tank, although it was demolished in 1998. The original model of the Möhne Dam used for explosives testing still exists (though a bit overgrown), and in 2003 was declared a "scheduled monument". The dam models seen in the film are the actual models made by the PRU at RAF Medmenham; these are now held by the Imperial War Museum.
* Young's oar: "Dinghy" Young was in the victorious 1938 Oxford crew in the Boat Race, and at the end of the film we see on his wall an oar painted with the names of the crew. The oar is a genuine souvenir of the race, having been borrowed from Young's family for use in the film.
* Gibson's Mae West: Complaints have been made that the lifejacket worn by Todd in the film is not the type worn by RAF servicemen in 1943. However, after shooting down a Heinkel 111 during his nightfighter days, Gibson went to Skegness (where the aircraft crashed) and claimed one of the German lifejackets as a prize, and he wore this himself from then on - it is thus (correctly) a German lifejacket that Todd is seen wearing in the film.
* Wallis: Although Michael Redgrave's performance probably captures the essence of Wallis, his character in the film absorbs some of the other technicians involved, so that Wallis appears to be credited personally with some of the research and ideas that were not actually his. Michael Redgrave sat in on some meetings with Wallis to feed into his characterisation, and Wallis was mostly happy with his portrayal in the film. Redgrave is alleged to have told Wallis "I'm not going to imitate you, you know" to which Wallis replied "Oh no, you must create me!"
* The music: "The Dam Busters March" by Eric Coates is heard throughout the film; it appears to have been written for the film (one of few film commissions accepted by the composer), although some sources claim it was written earlier. Coates died in 1957; he is well known for other light British classics, including "By a Sleepy Lagoon" used as the theme to the long-running "Desert Island Discs" on BBC radio (1942-present).
* Nigger: This was the name of Gibson's black Labrador dog, killed in a hit-and-run accident on the day of the mission (in the film). In fact, the fatal accident took place the day before, and the car did stop (it was driven by an RAF officer). "Nigger" was also the codeword to indicate the breaching of the Möhne Dam; although today deemed politically incorrect (despite the fact that it simply stems from the Latin word for black), it is still used in the recent DVD release of the film, despite earlier suggestions that the film should be sanitized (some US releases of the film had all references to this word cut, although it does appear in the US DVD release). Sharp-eyed viewers may spot the "ghost of Nigger" running through the trees at the end of the film (where Gibson is talking to Wallis at Scampton) - no dog was known to be on the base when the film was made, so the identity of the animal seen on film remains a mystery!
* Oops!:
o In a number of shots of the Lancasters doing low flying practice (before the bombs are ready) ... the bombs are clearly visible beneath the aircraft!
o In some of the long shots, the "Lancasters" in the background are actually post-war Avro Lincolns. The Wellington and Mosquitoes seen preparing for test drops are in post-war markings.
* Other movie Trivia:
o The Death Star trench sequence in the film "Star Wars" (1977) was inspired by "The Dam Busters".
o Dick King-Smith's first novel "The Fox Busters" (1978) was also inspired by "The Dam Busters"; his later novel "The Sheep-Pig" was made into the film "Babe" and was a huge hit.
o In the film "Pink Floyd: The Wall" (1982), a clip of "The Dam Busters" is seen on a TV in Pink's room during the "One Of My Turns" scene (Roger Waters' father was in the RAF and died during WW2).
o Steenbergen (see below) is not dissimilar to the Dutch translation (steentassen) of "brick hill" - Paul Brickhill was the author of "The Dam Busters" book which was one of the primary sources for the film.
o "The Dam Busters" came 11th in the 2005 Channel 4 viewer poll to find the "100 Greatest War Films" (it was beaten by "Bridge on the River Kwai", "Black Hawk Down", "Zulu", "A Bridge Too Far", "Platoon", "Full Metal Jacket", "Schindler's List", "The Great Escape", "Apocalypse Now" and "Saving Private Ryan" which came 1st).
o "The Dam Busters" came 86th in the 2004 BFI's definitive list of of the top 100 most-seen films in the UK, with a cinema audience of 8.4 million.
* Other Guy Gibson Trivia:
o Guy Gibson appeared on "Desert Island Discs" in February 1944 - the theme music for the show was written by the composer who would later write "The Dam Busters March", Eric Coates.
o Guy Gibson's widow Eve died on the same date in 1988 as Sir Harold Martin, who was the third pilot to attack the Möhne Dam during the raid.
o During his flight to the Ruhr for Operation Chastise, Guy Gibson passed virtually overhead of Steenbergen in the Netherlands, where he would be buried in 1944.
o Nigger was as unpopular on the station as his master (being prone to urinating on aircrew's legs after drinking too much beer), and a rumour from the time says that he was not buried where he appeared to be, but his body was dumped in the woods, a rumour supported by the lack of bones found in his gravesite when the grave had to be moved post-war; the accident which killed him may not have been wholly accidental.
Found this trivia
http://www.computing.dundee.ac.uk/staff ... ambust.asp
The film "The Dam Busters" premiered on 16th/17th May 1955, attended by numerous survivors of the raid. It is a reasonable portrayal of the story of the development of the "bouncing bomb" and Operation Chastise itself (and of the characters involved in the story), but like all cinematic versions, there are some inaccuracies, omissions or inconsistencies (for whatever reason). This list gives some detail on the factual inaccuracies that I've spotted in the film:
* Upkeep: the bomb shown beneath the attacking Lancasters in the film is too large and too spherical in shape; this suggests continuity with the earlier footage of real test drops, but is more likely due to the secret nature of the Upkeep weapon (it was still secret when the film was made, and for many years afterwards - hence in some of the test drop footage from the Wellington and Mosquito, the bomb is masked out by a black disc). The shots of the bombs bouncing towards the dams in the film are actually archive shots of Highball tests on Loch Striven. [There is no suitable archive footage of Upkeep test drops with a suitable background.]
* Other Aircraft: During the crew briefing in the film (and very prominently in the cinema trailer for the film), Gibson remarks that 617 will be the only squadron operating that night. This is also stated in Gibson's book and Morpurgo's biography of Wallis, although Sweetman and Cooper note that other squadrons were flying that night (including "gardening" (mine-laying) operations all along the enemy coast (with 54 aircraft, one of which was lost), and a 9 Mosquito raid on Berlin; major bombing raids were off due to the full moon) - see my Big & Bouncy page for references). [Cooper and Sweetman are correct, according to the Bomber Command diary for May 1943.]
* The spotlights: The idea of the triangulated spotlamps to set the aircraft height is shown as being Gibson's, during a visit to the theatre; in fact it was Benjamin Lockspeiser (Chief Scientist at the Ministry of Supply) who came up with the idea, it having been used as far back as World War I. Also in the film, the height spotlamps are shown under the nose and tail of the Lancasters; in fact the second spotlamp was in the rear of the bomb bay. In many art prints of the dams raid, the spotlamp beams are incorrectly shown shining down directly beneath the aircraft (where they could not have been seen from the cockpit). See my Big & Bouncy page for details of the spotlamp mounting.
* Hitting the dams: In the film, all the mines hit the dams (with the exception of Hopgood's at the Möhne and Maudley's at the Eder) and it appears to take several hits to break the dams, contrary to Wallis' theory that one hit in the right place would be enough. In fact, it was the first correctly placed mine which actually broke the dam in each case, just as Wallis predicted (see my Big & Bouncy page for details of the attack). The last mine was dropped at the Möhne (by Maltby) just as the dam was already crumbling following the hit by Young. [This error, which actually reflects badly on Wallis, is probably down to wanting it to appear as though all the aircraft bombed accurately.]
* The Eder: In the film, the second mine dropped at the Eder (by Maudsley) is dropped too late and the explosion causes the aircraft to crash into the hillside after a last faint radio message. However, it is now known that Maudsley's aircraft actually crashed in Holland, so it was either not damaged by the explosion of the mine (other than perhaps the radio), or took longer to succumb to the damage than is suggested. [This error is probably due to the records of the time which showed Maudsley as lost over the Eder.]
* The Sorpe: Although mentioned as one of the raid's targets during the crew briefing in the film, the actual attack on the dam, and the different method of attack, are not shown. [This omission is probably due the anti-climax it would have produced, as the Sorpe was not breached.]
* The Lancasters: The Lancasters that appear in the film came from the Maintenance Unit at RAF Hemswell, having the 617 Squadron code letters applied (Gibson's aircraft also got the ED932 registration, though others kept their real registrations) as well as having the dorsal turrets removed (as the real aircraft had had) and the addition of the oversized dummy Upkeeps. Most of the original Lancasters saw no further action during the war, and were scrapped after the war ended, including Gibson's aircraft (AJ-G / ED932) which was scrapped in 1946 (sacrilege???).All the aircraft used in the film were broken up for scrap in 1956. The film aircraft appear to have 2 x 0.5" machine guns in the rear turrets, though the original aircraft would have all had 4 x 0.303" machine guns there; ammo seen being loaded also appears to be 0.5". [ This detail was probably overlooked when making the film. ]
* Test dams and testing tank: The catapult shown for testing the bouncing bomb in the tank at Teddington is the original device, and this is still owned by the National Physical Laboratory, although it is currently on loan to the Barnes Wallis Collection at Elvington, York where it can be viewed by visitors. The sequences in the testing tank were filmed in the actual tank, although it was demolished in 1998. The original model of the Möhne Dam used for explosives testing still exists (though a bit overgrown), and in 2003 was declared a "scheduled monument". The dam models seen in the film are the actual models made by the PRU at RAF Medmenham; these are now held by the Imperial War Museum.
* Young's oar: "Dinghy" Young was in the victorious 1938 Oxford crew in the Boat Race, and at the end of the film we see on his wall an oar painted with the names of the crew. The oar is a genuine souvenir of the race, having been borrowed from Young's family for use in the film.
* Gibson's Mae West: Complaints have been made that the lifejacket worn by Todd in the film is not the type worn by RAF servicemen in 1943. However, after shooting down a Heinkel 111 during his nightfighter days, Gibson went to Skegness (where the aircraft crashed) and claimed one of the German lifejackets as a prize, and he wore this himself from then on - it is thus (correctly) a German lifejacket that Todd is seen wearing in the film.
* Wallis: Although Michael Redgrave's performance probably captures the essence of Wallis, his character in the film absorbs some of the other technicians involved, so that Wallis appears to be credited personally with some of the research and ideas that were not actually his. Michael Redgrave sat in on some meetings with Wallis to feed into his characterisation, and Wallis was mostly happy with his portrayal in the film. Redgrave is alleged to have told Wallis "I'm not going to imitate you, you know" to which Wallis replied "Oh no, you must create me!"
* The music: "The Dam Busters March" by Eric Coates is heard throughout the film; it appears to have been written for the film (one of few film commissions accepted by the composer), although some sources claim it was written earlier. Coates died in 1957; he is well known for other light British classics, including "By a Sleepy Lagoon" used as the theme to the long-running "Desert Island Discs" on BBC radio (1942-present).
* Nigger: This was the name of Gibson's black Labrador dog, killed in a hit-and-run accident on the day of the mission (in the film). In fact, the fatal accident took place the day before, and the car did stop (it was driven by an RAF officer). "Nigger" was also the codeword to indicate the breaching of the Möhne Dam; although today deemed politically incorrect (despite the fact that it simply stems from the Latin word for black), it is still used in the recent DVD release of the film, despite earlier suggestions that the film should be sanitized (some US releases of the film had all references to this word cut, although it does appear in the US DVD release). Sharp-eyed viewers may spot the "ghost of Nigger" running through the trees at the end of the film (where Gibson is talking to Wallis at Scampton) - no dog was known to be on the base when the film was made, so the identity of the animal seen on film remains a mystery!
* Oops!:
o In a number of shots of the Lancasters doing low flying practice (before the bombs are ready) ... the bombs are clearly visible beneath the aircraft!
o In some of the long shots, the "Lancasters" in the background are actually post-war Avro Lincolns. The Wellington and Mosquitoes seen preparing for test drops are in post-war markings.
* Other movie Trivia:
o The Death Star trench sequence in the film "Star Wars" (1977) was inspired by "The Dam Busters".
o Dick King-Smith's first novel "The Fox Busters" (1978) was also inspired by "The Dam Busters"; his later novel "The Sheep-Pig" was made into the film "Babe" and was a huge hit.
o In the film "Pink Floyd: The Wall" (1982), a clip of "The Dam Busters" is seen on a TV in Pink's room during the "One Of My Turns" scene (Roger Waters' father was in the RAF and died during WW2).
o Steenbergen (see below) is not dissimilar to the Dutch translation (steentassen) of "brick hill" - Paul Brickhill was the author of "The Dam Busters" book which was one of the primary sources for the film.
o "The Dam Busters" came 11th in the 2005 Channel 4 viewer poll to find the "100 Greatest War Films" (it was beaten by "Bridge on the River Kwai", "Black Hawk Down", "Zulu", "A Bridge Too Far", "Platoon", "Full Metal Jacket", "Schindler's List", "The Great Escape", "Apocalypse Now" and "Saving Private Ryan" which came 1st).
o "The Dam Busters" came 86th in the 2004 BFI's definitive list of of the top 100 most-seen films in the UK, with a cinema audience of 8.4 million.
* Other Guy Gibson Trivia:
o Guy Gibson appeared on "Desert Island Discs" in February 1944 - the theme music for the show was written by the composer who would later write "The Dam Busters March", Eric Coates.
o Guy Gibson's widow Eve died on the same date in 1988 as Sir Harold Martin, who was the third pilot to attack the Möhne Dam during the raid.
o During his flight to the Ruhr for Operation Chastise, Guy Gibson passed virtually overhead of Steenbergen in the Netherlands, where he would be buried in 1944.
o Nigger was as unpopular on the station as his master (being prone to urinating on aircrew's legs after drinking too much beer), and a rumour from the time says that he was not buried where he appeared to be, but his body was dumped in the woods, a rumour supported by the lack of bones found in his gravesite when the grave had to be moved post-war; the accident which killed him may not have been wholly accidental.
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FuelPump
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Interesting stuff Bundy!
What's that photo of? Is that a briefing room or something?
I hope somebody makes the movie. I was hoping Peter Jackson would do it, as he would do an awesome job.
Another pick would be Ridley Scott (Black Hawk Down, Alien, Bladerunner, The Duellist, various others). He likes a good war flick, and he has the technical eye for detail, without so much of the bullshit, to do it pretty well. Plus he's British, so he'd have the cultural background.
What's that photo of? Is that a briefing room or something?
I hope somebody makes the movie. I was hoping Peter Jackson would do it, as he would do an awesome job.
Another pick would be Ridley Scott (Black Hawk Down, Alien, Bladerunner, The Duellist, various others). He likes a good war flick, and he has the technical eye for detail, without so much of the bullshit, to do it pretty well. Plus he's British, so he'd have the cultural background.
Fuelpump
RAAF
617 Squadron
RAAF
617 Squadron
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Duke2
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- Location: Somewhere between, lost and found. :)
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Tzulscha
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Sniper62
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allibone wrote:*posted in the hangar, but i thought I'd post it here too
Yeah it's cool ain't it, imagine making a film about our little WWIIOL squad
I hope I get the lead as a grumpy Scot, sniper62 can be the horny teen and hiiamben the grizzled war vet. Bundyrum is definitely gonna be in the map room (possibly cracking one off over a full sized map of Europe). Mevan will have a cameo as a random well mannered Canadian. Whenever Reddog speaks all you will hear is a muffled noise, but in the film everyone except the audience will understand perfectly what he is saying.
Ben will randomly disappear (CTD) during the film, often in the middle of a scene which he is in.
Fuelpump will just get shot as the credits roll and explode into a tree.
Duke2 will be recovering in hospital for the whole movie, dressed in blue and white stripey pyjamas and pushed about in a wheelchair by buxom nurses who keep slapping his hands cos he keeps pinching their bums. Much like Yossarian (catch 22 for the uninitiated) there is nothing actually wrong with Duke2, he just keeps getting admitted to hospital to pinch the nurses bums and avoid certain death in one of Hiiambens suicidal lat line bomb runs.
Sniper62 makes great attempts to go and visit Duke2 in hospital, he likes to pinch the nurses bums too one in particular called RedPup, but is kept in check by the overshadowing figure of 617DB CO Charlie3 who makes him fly constant reconnaisance and escort missions, on the basis that a horny pilot is a good pilot and will try that little bit harder to make it back to base to get his oats.
p.s Mako, you aint gonna be in it you traitor
AHAHAHAH! lmao!!!!!
that would be a good movie, any1 got acouple mill to spend on it? lol
Sniper62
CO RAF 617 Squadron "The DamBusters"
My Movies: (youtube links, PM me if you are interested in higher res)-BARCAP in Action-Fighter Action-Fighter Action #2-Sniper of 09s-109f1vsSpitV
CO RAF 617 Squadron "The DamBusters"
My Movies: (youtube links, PM me if you are interested in higher res)-BARCAP in Action-Fighter Action-Fighter Action #2-Sniper of 09s-109f1vsSpitV
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barely8
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barely8
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jakenick
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